Diversity in Practice: Going From Theory to Action with MoFo Partner and Ally Dario de Martino

In part two of our Diverse in Practice podcast discussion on allyship, MoFo’s Director of Diversity and Inclusion Natalie Kernisant sits down with partner and ally Dario de Martino to discuss how his cultural identity and background have contributed to his practice, and why he feels that it is more important than ever to become an active participant in advocating for marginalized groups.

Transcript

Speaker: Welcome to MoFo Perspectives, a podcast by Morrison & Foerster, where we share the perspectives of our clients, colleagues, subject matter experts, and lawyers.

Natalie Kernisant: Welcome to the Diversity in Practice podcast, a part of MoFo Perspectives. My name is Natalie Kernisant, and I am the Director of Diversity and Inclusion for Morrison & Foerster. This podcast series is designed to provide a space to discuss a wide variety of issues related to diversity in the law and to introduce you to some of our talented, diverse attorneys, their areas of legal expertise, and the work that they and their MoFo allies do in furtherance of diversity, equity, and inclusion. It’s our hope that by sharing D&I best practices wherever possible, we can help make the legal industry a more inclusive place for those who are, in the words of MoFo’s former chair, Bob Raven, just a little bit different. Today, I’m happy to be chatting with Dario de Martino, who is a partner in our New York office and a member of our Mergers and Acquisitions group. Dario also serves as co-chair of our Blockchain and Smart Contracts group, where he regularly counsels market participants with respect to blockchain, tokenization, cryptocurrencies, and smart contracts. Dario, welcome to the podcast.

Dario de Martino: Thank you, Natalie. Happy to be here.

Natalie Kernisant: First. I wanted you to tell us a little bit about yourself and the work that you do here at MoFo.

Dario de Martino: Sure. I came to this country when I was about 20 years old from Southern Italy, which was exciting, but also if I look back, quite terrifying. I didn’t really speak English. I didn’t know anyone and couldn’t really understand most of what was going on in school and outside, but I was determined to learn, to fit in, and to contribute to a country that I had chosen for myself. Fast forward about 20 years. Today I’m an M&A and private equity partner. I represent U.S.-based and global technology, financial services and healthcare companies with respect to their domestic and cross-border mergers, acquisitions, carve outs, joint ventures, and other complex private equity transactions. And, as you mentioned, I’ve been serving as the co-chair of our Blockchain group for about five years now and regularly counsel both institutional clients and emerging companies with respect to a variety of matters relating to blockchain-enabled technologies.

Natalie Kernisant: So with your drive, background, and skillset, what made you choose MoFo, and what makes you stay?

Dario de Martino: Well, MoFo is one of very few law firms I know that has been able to leverage its culture, to become a prominent, innovative global law firm. We have so many role models at the firm, but I’ll just mention our former chair, Keith Wetmore, by the way, was the first openly gay man to serve as chairman of a major law firm, who said, nice guys can in fact finish first or at least near the front of the pack while still caring about collegiality, pro bono, and diversity. And that, to me, says everything you need to know about MoFo’s culture. Add to that the fact that we’re a tech powerhouse and a go-to firm for M&A and cross-border deal making, which are my passion. So, I can serve my clients with respect to a broad variety of complex transactions across the U.S., Asia, Europe, and Latin America. And I can be confident that the quality of our work product will be outstanding because I actually know the partners and associates that I will be working with. And you just can’t beat that.

Natalie Kernisant: Agreed. Okay. So let’s shift gears a bit. Recently, as you know, the D&I team here at MoFo hosted a really great partner panel in honor of Asian/Pacific American Heritage Month. It featured Julie Park, a litigation partner in our San Diego office who counsels on consumer product safety regulation among other things; Bonnie Lau, a litigation partner in our San Francisco office who focuses on antitrust and unfair competition class actions; and Haima Marlier, a partner in our Securities Litigation Enforcement and White Collar Practice group out in New York. During the panel, each one of them spoke to how their cultural identity and upbringing proved extremely helpful in their careers. Some spoke more specifically to how growing up in an immigrant household really helped them develop the invaluable skill of cultural fluency and how navigating two cultures as a child honed their ability to code switch and connect with a wide variety of people across difference.

Natalie Kernisant: Now, people in my line of work are often asked to talk about the business case for diversity and inclusion. So to hear their personal stories was for me a fascinating illustration of what the value proposition really is. The skills they learned through their lived experience as an Asian American are skills they rely on heavily as a lawyer in a profession where relationship building is critical and while servicing their clients all over the world. So can you tell us a little bit about how diversity and inclusion issues have impacted your professional path, if at all? I’m particularly interested in how your identity has proved helpful or valuable, assuming it has, but also I’d love for you to share with us some of the challenges you’ve encountered along the way.

Dario de Martino: Sure. And by the way, I agree that was a fantastic panel. And I love working with Julie, Bonnie, and Haima. So, sure. The first challenge that I dealt with was the lack of a role model who I knew or who I could relate to. There was no one in my family or at work who was diverse in my junior years, or that could show me the path to live a fulfilling but also an impactful life and eventually building a successful career while you’re diverse. I had to figure it out for myself. And so how do you deal with that? Well, for people who are diverse, I think there’s only one way that I know. You work hard, you work harder than your peers. Most people I know have some type of challenge in life, right? Some people don’t need to work or get a loan to go to law school.

Dario de Martino: Some do. Some have parents, friends, and family who are supportive, open‑minded, and want to make sure you’re equal, you’re loved, and can achieve whatever you like. Some don’t. I don’t come from an open-minded family. And despite the importance of dialogue, we rarely actually probably never discussed diversity as I was growing up, but I never let myself slow down or sulk. I never felt like a victim or underestimated myself. I just realized I had to make sacrifices more or perhaps different sacrifices than my siblings or my peers in order to build a happy life and then have a rewarding career. And then when I started working at a law firm, I never really thought that my bosses were biased or that I wouldn’t be able to have a genuine relationship with them just because I was different. On the bright side though—

Dario de Martino: I also think that minority lawyers can and should leverage their diversity. And I do that all the time. Maybe not at first, but over time, I realized that my differing perspectives, the fact that I speak different languages, that I have an accent, that I have lived in different countries, and I understand different cultures, actually resulted in better work product. And people always noticed good work product. Also, I have to say, thanks to you, Natalie, I was able to identify and then join a few organizations where you can meet other diverse lawyers and build a strong professional network. For example, I’m a Leadership Council on Legal Diversity fellow. And as a result, I’ve met the most remarkable group of people I’ve ever met. I’ve met leaders who are genuinely passionate about moving the diversity needle for all underrepresented communities, which is what I’m focused on, but I’ve also been able to leverage that network to generate new clients or otherwise identify other lawyers that I can’t refer matters to, which I’m sure is further triggering positive change in the legal industry.

Natalie Kernisant: You talk about building a strong, diverse network that allows you not only to generate and develop business, but also to pay it forward and refer business to diverse attorneys. You also talk about helping further positive change in the legal industry. This give and take is an example, I think, of allyship: actions that help advance diversity and provide access to spaces and networks some may otherwise not have access to. So I absolutely applaud you for that effort. Let’s talk a little bit more about allyship specifically. With what I see as the hyper polarization of politics today and all that’s going on in the world, diversity has, at times, been perceived as a weakness, a weakness some use to sow seeds of division. Our differences are now often used to incite fear and conflict rather than being viewed as we see it at MoFo as a strength that allows us to be more innovative, more resilient, and more creative. I believe that it is in these moments that allyship becomes increasingly important. Now you recently wrote a really powerful piece on allyship that the firm highlighted on our LinkedIn. Can you talk a little bit about how you define and conceptualize allyship and why it’s so important to you?

Dario de Martino: Allyship is a term that I use to describe ways non-marginalized people stand up for and support minorities. I’ve always believed in the power of allyship. You can’t trigger meaningful and lasting change without allies, but being an ally is not just who you are, but most importantly is what you actually do. And, a few generations ago, it may have been enough to be well informed or willing to engage in conversations about D&I or racial justice. Today, I think it has become imperative that the new generations of leaders frequently and actively support those who have to endure systemic racism and injustice every day. So it’s not enough anymore to proclaim to be colorblind as if pretending not to see color is not racist. It’s not enough to claim to be socially liberal because supporting protections for LGBTQ people is also an inherently economic choice.

Dario de Martino: So to combat racial injustice, we actually must do something. We must support antiracist policies to combat homophobia. We might support protections for LGBTQ+ people, not in theory, but in practice., I’m a very pragmatic person and I try to practice allyship every day. And it took me a while to understand how to do that. I thought that just because I’m diverse, I knew all about D&I, but with all that has recently transpired, I realized I actually had a lot to learn. So first, I took a hard look at my privilege. For example, as a white guy, I never have to choose between wearing a mask to protect against COVID-19 and becoming a more likely target of racial profiling or some sort of conscious or unconscious bias. I know that I will likely never feel anxiety or fear for my life—

Dario de Martino: When I see a blue light flashing behind my car, like my partner, my black partner, does. I won’t have to warn my son about police brutality, have that type of emotionally draining conversation and then just turn back to my laptop and focus on my work product. That’s privilege. And it took me a while to understand that. So that’s how I remind myself about how privileged I am. Secondly, now that I know that I have a privileged position as a partner, as a white partner of a top law firm, I know I have the ability to advocate for minorities and other marginalized groups in a way that could actually trigger change. And third, I’ve always surrounded myself with people of diverse backgrounds, both at the office and in my personal life. And that’s how I learn about diversity, about preconceived notions and unconscious bias. My closest friends are an African American male, an observant white Jewish male, and an Asian American female. So to me, diversity, inclusion, allyship is not just like an add on, something that I can delegate to you, Natalie, and your team, but it’s actually just who I am and what I want to do. And also like a central strategy, frankly, to the success of my practice.

Natalie Kernisant: Can you tell me about a time when you may have missed an opportunity to be an ally and what made you realize this was, in fact, a missed opportunity to act?

Dario de Martino: Sure. Look, I think I’ve always been pretty vocal about fairness, but yes. Today, I know I have missed a few opportunities to act as ally. Specifically, when I was a junior associate. At the time I confess I wasn’t even aware of unconscious bias. So if a partner or a senior associate clearly didn’t offer the same opportunities I had to a woman of color, at the time, I didn’t even think that that was because of bias. I thought I was better qualified for that particular job either because I had done it before or perhaps because I had taken a specific class in law school. You don’t know what you don’t know, but today as an ally, I actually focus on conscious and unconscious bias. And I do that every day and have discussions with my partners and my clients about diversity and bias every day. And look, I think we all made mistakes in the past, but I think it’s more important to reflect, discuss these issues openly, without fear of making mistakes in this space, which is obviously very sensitive, but commit to doing better the next time.

Natalie Kernisant: Interesting. Have allies played a role in your professional life to date? And if so, can you talk about a specific moment when you benefited by having an ally?

Dario de Martino: Sure. Yes. I was very, very fortunate to have a mentor at MoFo who groomed me, took me under his wings, and then spent some of his hard earned political capital advocating for my partnership. And while I think that we still need more buy-in from white, cisgender men to make change happen, we wouldn’t have the Bostock landmark ruling without white, straight male and female allies, right? But everyone has the ability and the responsibility to become an ally and trigger change. And that’s because privilege is really relative. It’s contextual. A white woman could be an ally to a woman of color. A gay man could be an ally to a straight woman. So even though I’m diverse, I always act as an ally to women, people of color, and other members of the LGBTQ community. I always try to staff matters with an equal number of male and female associates or male and female partners.

Dario de Martino: I focus our group’s recruiting efforts on women, people of color, LGBTQ+ lawyers. When I’m asked to moderate or speak on a panel, I always ask if there’s also a woman or another underrepresented speaker. When my clients want to buy or invest in another company, I look at the decks. I look at the composition of the members of the board, and I always point out if there’s lack of diversity of those potential targets so that my clients can make better choices going forward. And I also use my privilege to make introductions. I try to empower our associates. I try to make space for their voices. Everybody in my group knows that diverse or dissenting perspectives and ideas are welcome. And in fact, I value them. And then one thing that I’ve recently realized, I don’t pretend that everything is fine, especially when I know that people are hurting every day, whether because of a microaggression or more of an avert systemic hostility. Instead, I go ahead and ask uncomfortable questions because however uncomfortable it may be to speak up, I remind myself that being silent only allows the status quo to continue. And we can’t do that.

Natalie Kernisant: As always, Dario, it was a pleasure talking to you. I appreciate your continued commitment to diversity inclusion. And I look forward to continuing to partner with you on these important issues.

Dario de Martino: Thank you, Natalie, for having me and for everything you’ve done for me specifically and for the firm. Thank you again.

Speaker: Please make sure to subscribe to the MoFo Perspectives podcast so you don’t miss an episode. If you have any questions about what you heard today, or would like more information on this topic, please visit mofo.com/podcasts. Again, that’s MoFo, M-O-F-O.com/podcasts.